Curse

Byron · Jun 04, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Got the idea while watching a euro AT that seemed like it was all D/E and Me/Mo.

The premise was, "Hm, a trapper and a plague signet guy would be pretty good 8v8." But of course there are problems, which is why I'm posting it.

Big weaknesses: enchant removal, hex removal, prots.

The necro build gave me a lot of trouble. The first 4 skills on the bar, I think, are beyond debate. But, I needed that guy to have enchantment removal and not be so soft a target, since he's the only midliner. Mirror was definitely my removal of choice, since rip enchant didn't seem enough, and I already had 2 sources of bleeding. I thought about putting in rip enchant over putrid, but decided against it.
Oh yeah, and distortion - not sure what else to do. This build lacks defense by design, so I was afraid that a D/E could just sneeze on this necro and make him DP'd out. Distortion gives him a block stance, but obviously really messes with the build.

The monks were the other problem. I knew that they needed to go Mo/A with a trapper present, which means no aegis. That usually means SoD on the prot monk, but that presented another problem. Without good party heals, the build becomes very vulnerable to pressure itself (I was also thinking of the signet meta). I can't have an 8v8 build that can't withstand pressure! That's why you see the modified Tommy BL bar. Backline is light on prot, good on heals - I figured this build could power through enemy physically heavy builds, especially with mo/a.
The alternative would be a SoD prot monk with a monk runner, for strong party heals.

Frontline seems solid - the supercharged magehunter guy provides a lot of KD, which of course emphasizes the degen. I might have put in a D/E over the cripslash, but I think that dervish build will get nerfed soon.

The magebane seemed the best utility option - good interrupts and poison.

Trapper is essential, and I need it to be offensive. Smoke trap is the way. I don't wanna do that NR/Tranq nonsense - it just seems weak in this physically heavy meta, especially since mo/e are going out of style.

Please share your criticisms - any post is appreciated.

[build prof=W/Rt name="" ham=12+1 str=12+1+1 res=2 desc=""][bull's strike][magehunter's smash][crushing blow][hammer bash][flail][enraging charge][for great justice][death pact signet][/build]
[build prof=W/E name="" swo=12+1+1 str=8+1 fir=10 desc=""][bull's strike][crippling slash][gash][sun and moon slash][frenzy][rush][conjure flame][resurrection signet][/build]
[build prof=R/Mo name="" desc=""][pin down][magebane shot][distracting shot][apply poison][natural stride][troll unguent][mending touch][resurrection signet][/build]
[build prof=R/Rt name="" exp=12+1+1 wil=12+1 desc=""][smoke trap][barbed trap][dust trap][flame trap][distracting shot][lightning reflexes][natural stride][flesh of my flesh][/build]
[build prof=N/Me name="" dea=10+1+1 cur=9+1 sou=9+1 ill=7 desc=""][enfeebling blood][foul feast][plague signet][rotting flesh][mirror of disenchantment][putrid explosion][distortion][resurrection signet][/build]
[build prof=Rt/A name="" desc=""][weapon of remedy][weapon of warding][wielder's boon][protective was kaolai][splinter weapon][ancestor's rage][dash][dark escape][/build]
[build prof=Mo/A name="" div=12+1+1 pro=12+1 sha=2 desc=""][reversal of fortune][dismiss condition][blessed light][spirit bond][aura of stability][divine healing][heaven's delight][return][/build]
[build prof=Mo/A name="" hea=12+1+1 pro=10+1 div=8+1 sha=2 desc=""][patient spirit][dismiss condition][word of healing][protective spirit][guardian][infuse health][holy veil][return][/build]

Note - the guru skills are out of date.

Floski · Jun 04, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

The condi pressure builds I've seen taht were truly effective were ones with humility to shutdown RC. As it stands, unless your ranger dshots RC with some consistency, or they ball up a lot, I can't see it being too effective. Plus, with sig smiters, they're going to shutdown smoketrap. Dazed is strong, unless you don't have it.

I also don't see the point of plague signet, can you use plague sending and fit wail of doom in for distortion? Perhaps a derv or two would be a better idea for physicals, with so many sigsmiters running around. Plus, the wounding strike dervs do bleeding AND deepwound, every 3 seconds, you can also fit in a cripple application, to keep with your condi theme.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 04, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The necro build gave me a lot of trouble. The first 4 skills on the bar, I think, are beyond debate. But, I needed that guy to have enchantment removal and not be so soft a target, since he's the only midliner. Mirror was definitely my removal of choice, since rip enchant didn't seem enough, and I already had 2 sources of bleeding. I thought about putting in rip enchant over putrid, but decided against it.
Oh yeah, and distortion - not sure what else to do.

You're trying to fit way too much stuff on that char, distortion is definitely a big no and you're also gonna want to run 13 soul reapin gon that guy to get +3 foul feast.

To tell you the truth I'd replace the whole char with either a Me/N tainted (with hum sig mirror and either putrid, another strip or withering aura) or a Me/N Keystone guy (with rotting, sig weariness, sig distract, hum sig etc).

[/quote]The monks were the other problem. I knew that they needed to go Mo/A with a trapper present, which means no aegis.[/quote]

Why would you NEED Mo/A? Mo/E with Aegis is still fine.

Quote:

That usually means SoD on the prot monk, but that presented another problem.

Why? Mo/A with SoD? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

Quote:

Without good party heals, the build becomes very vulnerable to pressure itself (I was also thinking of the signet meta). I can't have an 8v8 build that can't withstand pressure! That's why you see the modified Tommy BL bar. Backline is light on prot, good on heals - I figured this build could power through enemy physically heavy builds, especially with mo/a.

Well think again, the BLight guy is gonna have energy problems as will the WoH guy really.

Quote:

The alternative would be a SoD prot monk with a monk runner, for strong party heals.

Monk runners don't really offer stronger party heals than rit runners, and a SoD monk would be even worse.

Quote:

I might have put in a D/E over the cripslash, but I think that dervish build will get nerfed soon.

You should, I don't think the Derv will get nerfed much if at all.

Quote:

Trapper is essential, and I need it to be offensive. Smoke trap is the way. I don't wanna do that NR/Tranq nonsense - it just seems weak in this physically heavy meta, especially since mo/e are going out of style.

I really dont think the trapper is gonna be that effective, you're basically gonna have a sig mesmer sit on you and wand/spear you 24/7, plus if people know you're playing a trapper they can easily sub in a wild blow on a derv.

I think this build could work vs a standard balanced but I really dont see it beat the current meta build..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

Plus, with sig smiters, they're going to shutdown smoketrap. Dazed is strong, unless you don't have it.

They're gonna go for plague signet in that build probably, smoke trap isnt that big an issue on most maps.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 05, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Thought about running a build like that a few months ago, but until foul feast and signet of humility go away I wouldn't. Great build otherwise, its just the meta imo.

Burton2000 · Jun 05, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

That build looks strangely like the vZ condition build except its alot worse.

Mitchel · Jun 05, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

This really needs a Hum Sig guy to disable RC, don't really see the point of D-shot on the trapper either. I'm baed so I use a staff for trapping.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 05, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchel

don't really see the point of D-shot on the trapper either. I'm baed so I use a staff for trapping.

It's called weapon swapping.

Byron · Jun 05, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I think this build could work vs a standard balanced but I really dont see it beat the current meta build..

Having stepped away from it for a day and pugging a few gvgs, this statement really sums it up. Not good for meta, and there are other problems, as have been listed.

The real lesson I'm getting is: run meta until the next monthly. You can't beat super dervs and sigmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

The condi pressure builds I've seen taht were truly effective were ones with humility to shutdown RC.

No doubt a solid tactic. In substitution I'd probably sit my frontline on the RC guy. Or else I'd have to run a mesmer. And if I run a mesmer, might as well make him all signets; then I might as well run dervs, etc.

Thanks for responses.

DutchSmurf · Jun 05, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

How viable is an Ebon Dust Aura ranger/para/whatever as defense in a conditionbuild? Not sure if it is possible, but a ranger using Apply Poison+Called Shot might be able to keep 2 melee out of the game for most of the time.

Farin · Jun 06, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

How viable is an Ebon Dust Aura ranger/para/whatever as defense in a conditionbuild? Not sure if it is possible, but a ranger using Apply Poison+Called Shot might be able to keep 2 melee out of the game for most of the time.

Enchantment Removal.

Who would've thought.

DutchSmurf · Jun 06, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

Enchantment Removal.

Who would've thought.

Obvious answer 1 would be, cover it.
Obvious answer 2 would be, which enchantment removal? Mirror of Disenchantment? Or a rare Rend Enchantments or Signet of Disenchantment? I would agree if important enchantments had a chance to be removed. Since that hardly ever happens, I don't see it as a major problem. Don't forget that even if it gets removed once, you still have the standard interrupts to cause problems with.

Not saying it is a good idea, just saying that enchantment removal doesn't seem to be a major issue in the current game.

Iko · Jun 06, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

a lot of people are running rend or gaze on their eles right now. A single rend on the enemy team is enough to completely neglect an ebon dust derwishs defensive value.